NBC5 In Depth: Former Burlington mayor looking for solutions to Vermont's 'housing scarcity' (2025)

I’M ADRIENNE PASTOR. THIS IS NBC5 IN DEPTH. NEARLY A YEAR SINCE LEAVING CITY HALL. BURLINGTON’S FORMER MAYOR MIRO WEINBERGER IS GOING BACK TO HIS ROOTS, HOPING TO FIND SOLUTIONS TO WHAT HE CALLS A HOUSING SCARCITY IN THE STATE. I CAUGHT UP WITH HIM TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HIS NEW COALITION. LET’S BUILD HOMES, AND HOW HE THINKS THAT THE STATE CAN BUILD 30,000 OF THEM IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. YOU HAVE A PRETTY AMBITIOUS GOAL, OR THIS IS KIND OF SETTING YOUR SIGHTS ON 30 K HOMES. SO TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. IN SOME WAYS, THIS GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO MY CHILDHOOD, RIGHT? I WAS THE SON OF AN ARCHITECT, AND WE TALKED ABOUT BUILDINGS AND DEVELOPMENT ALL THE TIME. I SPENT THE FIRST 15 YEARS OF MY CAREER, FOR THE MOST PART. I DID A LITTLE BIT OF A LITTLE BIT OF WORK ON CAMPAIGNS, A LITTLE BIT OF WORK IN POLITICS, BUT MOST OF WHAT I DID FOR 15 YEARS WAS TO TRY TO BUILD PERMANENTLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING. AND I LEARNED A LOT DURING THOSE YEARS I HAD SOME SUCCESS. WE BUILT A COUPLE HUNDRED HOMES WITH A COMPANY THAT I STARTED CALLED THE HARTLAND GROUP. I WORKED FOR A GREAT COMMUNITY BASED NONPROFIT IN SOUTHWEST YONKERS. I HAD APPEARED BEFORE THAT WORKING FOR HABITAT FOR HUMANITY. I TOOK ALL THAT EXPERIENCE. INTO OFFICE AND WAS VERY CLEAR WHEN I ENTERED OFFICE THAT WE HAD MADE IT WAY TOO HARD TO BUILD HOMES, AND THAT WAS IMPACTING BURLINGTON A REALLY PROFOUND WAY. IT WAS IT WAS CHANGING THE CITY. IT WAS MAKING IT A MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE PLACE. WHEN YOU LIMIT WHAT CAN GET BUILT YOU, BUT DEMAND CONTINUES TO RISE. YOU HAVE MORE AND MORE COMPETITION FOR SCARCE HOMES, AND THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT WAS GOING ON IN BURLINGTON. AND WE DID OUR BEST TO TRY TO CHANGE THOSE TRENDS. AND WE DID, YOU KNOW, OVER THE COURSE OF MY 12 YEARS IN OFFICE, WE INCREASED THE RATE OF NEW HOUSING PRODUCTION, BOTH PERMANENTLY AFFORDABLE AND MARKET RATE HOMES, ABOUT 400%. WHEN I LOOK AT THE CURRENT SITUATION, THE PAST EFFORTS TO ADDRESS AFFORDABLE HOUSING HAVE BEEN VERY FOCUSED ON PERMANENTLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THE KIND OF GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED HOUSING. AND AND WE HAVE GREAT NONPROFITS DOING OUTSTANDING WORK THERE. AND AT THE SAME TIME, IT IS WE ARE NOT I THINK IT’S VERY CLEAR NOW THAT IF WE ONLY FOCUS ON BUILDING PERMANENTLY AFFORDABLE HOMES, WE’RE WE’RE NOT GOING TO GET WHERE WE NEED TO GO. IN FACT, IN SOME WAYS, JUST FOCUSING ON THAT IS MAKING OUR AFFORDABILITY CHALLENGES WORSE. WE WE NEED TO MAKE IT EASIER TO BUILD HOMES OF ALL TYPES, ALL SHAPES AND SIZES. FOR ALL INCOME LEVELS, ALL BACKGROUNDS. THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING GROUPS ARE A CENTRAL KIND OF CORE FOUNDATIONAL PART OF THIS COALITION, AS WELL AS PRIVATE DEVELOPERS. WE ALSO HAVE THE HOSPITALS INVOLVED. WE ALSO HAVE EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS INVOLVED. WE HAVE WE HAVE EVERYONE FROM AARP TO VPOP, VERMONTERS FOR FOR VERMONTERS, FOR PEOPLE ORIENTED PLACES, A GROUP OF 20 AND 30 SOMETHING YEAR OLD VERMONTERS WHO, YOU KNOW, WANT TO MAKE A CAREER OR WANT TO MAKE A HOME HERE IN VERMONT BUT CAN’T CAN’T FIND A PLACE TO LIVE. SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN I REFLECT BACK ON MY 12 YEARS IN OFFICE, THE WAY WE OFTEN GOT THINGS DONE WAS TO PUT TOGETHER A COALITIONS THAT WOULD COME OUT AND DEMONSTRATE THEIR SUPPORT. THAT’S WHAT WE’RE TRYING TO DO ON A STATEWIDE LEVEL. HOW DO WE GET TO THAT 30,000 HOME GOAL? RIGHT. IT IS AN AMBITIOUS GOAL. IT TO GET TO 30,000 HOMES, WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING WE CREATED. IT’S A IT’S A GOAL THAT WE TOOK FROM A STATE NEEDS ASSESSMENT. THE VERMONT HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY PUBLISHED THIS REPORT LAST SUMMER. IT IS IT IS IT IS A GOAL THAT IS GOING TO BE HARD TO GET TO. IT INVOLVES ABOUT APPROXIMATELY DOUBLING THE RATE OF HOUSING PRODUCTION THAT WE’RE THAT WE’RE CURRENTLY BUILDING AND THAT WE HAVE BUILT FOR MOST OF THE LAST 15 YEARS. THAT IS WHY I THINK THAT THAT GOAL IS THE RIGHT ONE. AND IT IS BOTH AMBITIOUS AND ACHIEVABLE. IS THERE ARE A FEW DATA POINTS THAT MAKE ME CONFIDENT WE CAN GET THERE. ONE IS, IF YOU LOOK BACK IN THE STATE’S HISTORY, YOU ONLY HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE 1980S TO FIND A TIME WHEN WE WERE BUILDING AT ABOUT THREE TIMES THE RATE OF PERMANENT HOUSING GROWTH THAT WE ARE NOW. SO WE’VE DONE IT NOT THAT LONG AGO. IT’S POSSIBLE TO BUILD THIS MANY HOMES. WHAT WE HAVE IS A POLITICAL KIND OF POLICY AND POLITICAL CULTURE PROBLEM, AND SO THAT’S SOMETHING WE CAN FIX AND THAT’S SOMETHING WE CAN CHANGE. I’M ALSO CONFIDENT WE CAN DO THIS BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE IN BURLINGTON. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE INCREASED THERE ARE ABOUT 500 HOMES BUILT DURING THE 12 YEARS BEFORE I CAME INTO OFFICE. WE FOCUSED ON THIS ISSUE. WE USED EVERY TOOL THAT CITY GOVERNMENT HAD TO TURN THIS AROUND. AND WE WE BUILT OR GOT DEEP INTO CONSTRUCTION, ABOUT 2000 HOMES DURING THE 12 YEARS I WAS IN OFFICE. SO THAT KIND OF FOURFOLD INCREASE IS IT CAN BE DONE. AND IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE COUNTRY, THERE’S OTHER GREAT EXAMPLES, WHETHER IT’S THE STATE OF MONTANA OR THE CITY OF AUSTIN, PLACES THAT HAVE MADE POLICY CHANGES AND SEEN A REAL BOOM OF HOUSING FOLLOW FROM THAT. I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, BUT IT SEEMS AS IF, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST. SO DO WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK THAT FAR OR CAST A WIDE NET? WHEN WE’VE SEEN THIS KIND OF GROWTH WITHIN THE STATE ALREADY, THIS IS CERTAINLY AN AREA THAT THERE’S BEEN LOTS OF DIFFERENT EXPERIMENTATION APPROACHES AROUND THE COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD, AND WE SHOULD LEARN AS MUCH AS WE CAN FROM ALL OF THEM. ONE THAT I LOOK TO A LOT AND I FIND INTERESTING IS, IS WHAT WHAT HAS HAPPENED OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS IN OREGON, WHERE THEY HAD KIND OF A SIMILAR CHALLENGE THAT WE HAD BACK IN THE 1970S. AND WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT’S A PHYSICALLY A VERY BEAUTIFUL STATE, A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE LOVE THE LANDSCAPE, LOVE THE MOUNTAINS, LOVE THE COLUMBIA RIVER GORGE. AND SO WANTED TO HAVE UNDERSTANDABLY AND RIGHTLY WANTED TO HAVE SOME REAL IMPORTANT PROTECTIONS FOR THAT LANDSCAPE. AND AT THE SAME TIME, THEY WANTED TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO TO GROW. THEY CREATED SOMETHING CALLED URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARIES. THAT WAS BASICALLY A LINE AROUND EVERY MUNICIPALITY THAT SAID, WITHIN THIS LINE, WE’RE GOING TO MAKE IT MUCH EASIER TO BUILD HOUSING AND BUILD OTHER THINGS OUTSIDE OF THE LINE. WE’RE GOING TO MAKE IT HARDER. VERMONT DID SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT. WE PUT THIS A250 KIND OF WET BLANKET OVER THE ENTIRE STATE, MAKING IT DIFFICULT TO BUILD ANYWHERE. AND REALLY, FRANKLY, HARDEST TO BUILD IN THE AREAS WHERE WE MOST HAVE THE MOST CONSENSUS FOR DEVELOPMENT IN OUR DOWNTOWN, BECAUSE THERE YOU HAVE TO YOU HAVE HAD TO GO THROUGH A DOUBLE LAYER OF, OF REGULATION THAT IS INCREDIBLY WASTEFUL AND PROBLEMATIC. WE HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY RIGHT NOW BY STATUTE, BECAUSE OF WHAT THE LEGISLATURE DID LAST SPRING, WHERE THEY SAID, WE’RE GOING TO DRAW NEW MAPS FOR EVERY ACRE IN THE STATE AND THE WHAT WE PUT IN TIER ONE WILL BE MUCH EASIER TO DEVELOP IN, BECAUSE YOU WON’T HAVE TO GO THROUGH ACT 250 ANYMORE. ONE OF THE REASONS WE’VE STARTED LET’S BUILD HOMES RIGHT NOW, AND I THINK THERE’S A REAL IMPERATIVE FOR DOING IT RIGHT NOW, IS THOSE MAPS ARE GOING TO HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON THE FUTURE OF THE STATE, WHETHER THEY’RE DRAWN IN A PRO-HOUSING WAY THAT HAS SIGNIFICANT TIER ONE AREAS, OR WHETHER WE GO BACK TO SOMETHING LIKE WE HAD BEFORE LAST YEAR’S LEGISLATION, WHERE ONLY 0.4% OF THE STATE ALLOWED WAS SORT OF A DESIGNATED DEVELOPMENT AREA. WE KNOW THAT A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE THIS NOTION LIKE, WE WANT TO KEEP VERMONT RURAL, WE WANT TO KEEP THAT IDENTITY OF THE STATE. HOW DO WE USE EVERYTHING THAT WE’VE LEARNED THUS FAR TO HELP FOSTER THAT CONVERSATION A LITTLE BIT? WE CAN PROTECT THE BEAUTY OF VERMONT AND ITS WORKING LANDSCAPE THAT WE CHERISH, AND HAVE A LOT MORE HOUSING THAN WE HAVE TODAY. AND I THINK THAT THAT IS THE GOAL EXPLICITLY IN LET’S BUILD HOMES MISSION. WE UNDERSTAND THAT VERMONT IS UNIQUE AND WE ARE VERY WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE NEED TO BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT THAT AND FOCUS EXPANDED HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES IN THE AREAS THAT WE WANT THEM. WE KNOW THE COST OF LIVING CONTINUES TO GO UP, AND HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT ULTIMATELY THAT 30 K GOAL THAT’S BEING PUT ON IS IN A WAY THAT’S AFFORDABLE FOR FOLKS? I MEAN, I WANT TO BE CLEAR, ADRIAN, THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION IS LASER FOCUSED ON AFFORDABILITY. WHAT WE BELIEVE IS VERY CLEAR IS THAT OUR CURRENT SYSTEM, WITH ALL THESE BARRIERS TO NEW HOUSING BEING BUILT, HAS CREATED THIS SITUATION OF SCARCITY WHERE THERE JUST AREN’T NEARLY ENOUGH HOMES FOR ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WANT THEM. WHEN YOU HAVE A SITUATION LIKE THAT, YOU THAT COMPETITION IS THAT IS THE BIG DRIVER OF THE COST OF HOUSING THAT PEOPLE COMPETING FOR THOSE FEW NUMBER OF HOMES. AND THAT LEADS TO CUTTHROAT COMPETITION AND A DRAMATIC RISE IN PRICES. THE WAY TO ADDRESS THAT, AND IT TAKES TIME. BUT THE ONLY REALLY SOLUTION TO THIS ISSUE IS TO BUILD MORE HOMES, CREATE MORE CHOICES OF ALL SHAPES AND SIZES, FOR ALL INCOME LEVELS, ALL BACKGROUNDS. WHEN WE BUILD MORE HOMES, WE WILL BE MAKING HOUSING MORE AFFORDABLE. WE’LL BE MAKING HEALTH CARE MORE AFFORDABLE. WE’LL BE MAKING CHILDCARE MORE AFFORDABLE. TH